Pick One!

So which one is it? Women don’t go into STEM because there aren’t enough female role models, because we don’t like “geek culture” stuff, or because we aren’t smart enough. Pick one, dang it, and stick with it.

What? You didn’t know that Star Trek, Star Wars, and other sci-fi things were sexist and off-putting to women? That’s according to a librarian at MIT, so it must be true. Especially since there is an academic study to support the assertion (“Ambient Belonging: How Stereotypical Cues Impact Gender Participation in Computer Science” by Cheryan et al in Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 2009, Vol. 97, No. 6, 1045–1060)

And then we have one of the colleges at Oxford helpfully giving female students a few more minutes on their exam: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2018/02/01/oxford-university-extends-exam-times-womens-benefit/

And then there’s a dissertation that pretty much argues that women and minorities think differently from males of European descent, and so we need science changed so more women can learn science. [The second link is a not-unbiased synopsis of the article].

That’s the same sort of…stuff… that makes me cringe at eco-feminism and some of its offshoots. The proponents of such argue that women, or Indigenous Peoples, have “unique ways of knowing” that are more holistic, or less coldly rational, or more emotionally sympathetic to the environment and so are in a better position to make policies about land and water use, plant and animal conservation, and so on. Because logic, science, and quantitative analysis are all male, or even worse, European-male. That sort of fuzzy thinking and strained argument makes me want to turn in my second X chromosome.

I’m not certain if these people can even bring themselves to imagine how bad their arguments are. For example, with the Oxford time allowance and the dissertation about science syllabi—what is the difference between what the college did and what the dissertation proposes, and the old argument that women are too ignorant, or too emotional, or too much of our blood is diverted to our wombs and not enough to our minds, and so we shouldn’t worry ourselves with math and science? The librarian from MIT pretty much states that being a Star Trek fan is inherently sexist and anti-woman, anti-minority.

Huh?

Granted, I’m not a Trekkie, Trekker or whatever that fandom prefers to be called. I’m more classic Star Wars, Firefly, and written sci-fi, but I don’t see any problem with Trek fans enjoying Trek. Lt. Uhuru kicked tail in her own way, Princess Leia and Deja Thoris were not exactly shrinking violets with no knowledge of how the galaxy worked, and then there’s Star in Glory Road, among others. Female scientists abound in science fiction, once you start looking: Dr. Susan Calvin in I, Robot (the book), Kitty Ping in Dragons’ Dawn, many women in Heinlein’s novels, you can probably think of a lot of others. And there are scientists who are men who can inspire anyone. I wanted to be a paleontologist – because hunting for dino bones was seriously cool –  when I was a kid, but life happened and my weakness in math was a major stumbling block. Heck, I write sci-fi!

So why are there not “enough” women in STEM fields? Because we have other priorities? Because the computer culture in Silicon Valley is becoming more and more anti-feminine?* Because in aggregate women are better in fields that demand more verbal skills, while in aggregate men tend to be better in math and logic-heavy fields? Because few people in general want to spend eight hours in class, then ten hours in the lab, in grad school or in industry? Because if you plan on having kids, climbing up smoke-stacks to take samples because everything downwind is dying sounds less-than-appealing?

Because well-meaning do-gooders water down science and math for girls, so more girls will get high grades, and then we hit a brick wall in Intro to Electrical Engineering and Calculus 1?

I enjoy synthesizing other people’s research and translating from Engineer or Hydrologist into History. I really did not enjoy running all the calculations needed to get the data and then process it further. That’s just how I am, not because I have two X chromosomes.

As for role models and mentors, given the atmosphere in academia and corporate life today, who would dare mentor a grad student, be they male or female? I would not have a one-on-one meeting unless I could record all of it, video and audio. That’s not exactly a nurturing environment.

So you think there should be more women in science and engineering and computer fields? Great! Encourage girls and women, support them, cheer for them, but don’t tell us that science and technology needs to change because we are different from men. We know that already. Let us find our own strengths and skills, and if we decide that we’d rather go into biology than civil engineering or industrial chemistry, that we’d rather write tech manuals for computer programs and scripts for games than code and de-bug, don’t say we’ve let everyone down or that we don’t know what we really ought to be doing.

/end of rant.

*Anec-data, but you cannot persuade me that having large numbers of guest-workers from cultures where women are second class at best is going to encourage Western women to work in that field. Nor are the guest-workers suddenly going to “see the light” and become modern feminist males simply by setting foot in the US.

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29 thoughts on “Pick One!

  1. Yup. Leftists are always irrational, because their base philosophy is irrational. “Humans are interchangeable widgets, so any statistical differences in populations must be the result of hostile intent by Emmanuel Goldstein! We hate that Nazi and all his far-right minions!”

  2. I am now wondering in what culture resistive heating loss is NOT (I^2)R or where arsenic and lead are magically not toxic, or where mathematics itself (not interpretations thereof – Srinivasa Ramanujan had a different toolkit and could do things others of his time could not AND vice versa). And a world where culture DID have those effects would be a world of truly bizarre land-mines when people and devices crossed borders… not all of which could be readily seen in advance.

  3. Good post. Unfortunately, this is nothing new. I saw an article 20-25 years ago when I was in grad school about why science is rape.

    /beginrant

    Because I’ve been dealing with greater than normal levels of university stupidity for the last week, I’m going to say a few things.

    I thought we were free to pursue whatever endeavors we wanted. If that’s the case, why all the hand-wringing about gender numbers in different fields, especially STEM? What about gender imbalance among garbage collectors? Isn’t that important? Why should we judge and lament anyone’s career choice?

    Standards exist for a reason. They should not be lowered or watered down to privilege under represented groups, whether in academia, STEM, the military, or garbage collecting. Not everyone should go to college. You can make more as a garbage collector than you will with your gender studies degree. Plus you won’t have a mountain of debt.

    Along those lines, we need to bring back vocational education, train a skilled workforce, and stop bringing in these guest-workers who don’t share our culture’s values. Train our people to do that work and then pay them what they’re worth.

    I’ll decorate my work space with whatever I [REDACTED] well please. Right now that’s cover art from pulp magazines. Don’t like it? Stay out of my office. Besides if an illustration of a space babe in a brass bra puts you off of entering a STEM field, you probably couldn’t hack it anyway. (Side note: The women in brass bras in space on the covers of pulp magazines show that women are superior to men. If there’s a man in the picture, he has to wear a full space suit while at most the woman needs a fishbowl helmet.)

    There’s probably something to the idea that people in different parts of the world think differently than European males. After all, European males and their descendants put humanity on the Moon, developed a polio vaccine, and invented the electric guitar. And most of those other groups didn’t.

    Apologies for length and any offense given, but this post triggered me. The level of stupidity reported here does that. (Note that’s the stupidity reported by our hostess, not displayed by our hostess. She is always rational and erudite.)

    /endrant

    • It may have been on Larry Correia’s blog, but someone came up with a theory of inverse armor power, which also applied to survival gear: the smaller the visible armor on a character, the stronger it was. Thus a brass bikini offers more protection than piloting a mecha would.

      • I’ve explained “fantasy armor” as “It only covers the parts fantasized about”… but I suppose there must be some field effect beyond sheer distraction. (Egad, now I ponder Bilateral Junction, and Unijunction, as well as Field Effect armor… and then SCR and latchup conditions. Would Zenner Armor only cover everything ELSE? I shall go lie down now.)

      • I remember the concept being formally documented way back in GURPS 3rd edition, with the optional Bulletproof Nudity rule, but there may have been precursors.
        (Despite the name, it didn’t provide damage resistance. It just made the character harder to hit with ranged fire. The full version was for silly games, but the lesser versions were useful in all sorts of genres where it would be inappropriate for the PCs to be wearing armor all the time. After all most roleplayers were Odd, and would happily trade a -6 reaction roll to feel protected, which can kick off a vicious cycle…)

  4. Sigh… I know a ‘number’ of females in various STEM ‘positions’, and NONE of them are shy and retiring. They are damn good at what they do, proud to be part of the ‘bigger’ science world, and could give a rat’s ass less about the ‘feminists’… One is at Argonne, two are at ORNL, one current astronaut, one former astronaut, two at ARL-UT, and four or five at APL-JHU. I’d LOVE to see any of them get into a discussion with the so called liberals/feminists… Snerk…

    • I’m in a science department at a large university, and we have no lack of women in our department. They aren’t the majority of our majors, but they are a significant percentage.

  5. The answer is yes to all three parts. The mental faculties and preference differ from men; the geek culture and mathematical shorthand aren’t for them; and the number of role models is thus few.

    Arghhh …. I respectfully disagree with OldNFO. I work with a lot of female S&Es. About a third are good people to work with, bright, good ideas, attention to detail, or able to solve problems and work hard. The other two thirds are too busy rigging the networks, looking for “diversity point” projects, and working their over-documented and under-qualified selves into team leader and supervisor positions, because the second X makes them so special. Having sewn up the available higher grades and positions for Wonderful Me, they proceed to complain most of the day about child issues, why the job is so hard, all the extra time they now spend on work, and repeated calls to schedule doctor or other appointments for their offspring.

    Ladies, pro tips: if your office door is open (or even not), we can hear you thirty feet away, quite clearly; if you are complaining about the extra work, extra hours, why things got so difficult … well, did you expect the high pay and titles with LESS WORK? REALLY?? Third, since you’ll dump all the hard work on the first competent male who walks by (because the competent females remain out of striking range), why not let them have that fancy job in the first place?

    Listening to the two groups complain (competent ones at lunch, the others any time but lunch), you get the impression that announcing a RIF based on tech competence would cause group one to start a pogrom, and bring out the pitchforks.

    Back in the fall, I carefully dumped one of those useless staff actions back on the originator, who publicly expressed to her chosen work group the inability to define the basic problem and questions in the first place. This took me about 15 minutes total to arrange, in the only meeting. I haven’t been bothered about it since.

    Apologies for the rant, ma’am.

    • Yes, hiring for Diversity Points always works out so well for the actually qualified, doesn’t it? You’d think people would finally learn. No, scratch that, Leftists are incapable of learning from reality, as they deny its existence on a daily basis.

  6. For people who fetishize STEM to such a degree, they completely ignore the tools of industrial engineering when trying to make changes to a process. You can look at every school or academic program as a production line. Parents feeding into elementary, elementary into middle, middle into high, and high into tertiary. There’s a goal set for production on the final, tertiary, lines, how do you achieve it?

    Industrial engineering, as far as I can tell, would work to identify what causes process variation, and how the inputs and outputs of the lines interact. I’m pretty sure the techniques of industrial engineering are mostly not mathematically valid for the application. I wouldn’t be surprised to see someone trying to peddle a big data approach to public school.

    Those wiser and better at us took the opportunity of the Obama administration, and made major changes in two places, trying do a major overhaul of every primary and secondary public school system, and at the same time their push to have more women in STEM. They didn’t know what Common Core was doing to their future engineer cohorts, they assumed. At the same time they made assumptions about the incoming tertiary freshman cohort, and the proportions with aptitude and taste for engineering.

  7. That was spot-on. 20 years ago I got my masters in science and though I was glad I did it, I never used it career wise. I never want to see the inside of another lab as long as I live. And it was different with the men. They were definitely all in and many of them have been doing little science experiments since they were small children. That was not me. Also I was paid to go to school and given a stipend. And so we’re all the other women. They were figuratively throwing money at us.

    • I hung out with some of the science folks in grad school (shared misery breeds fellowship) and the women in engineering and physics got very, very large stipends and scholarships, the ladies in life-science fields got smaller ones, and the liberal-arts folks got a tuition break IF we were TAs. Part of me was pretty irked, the rest of me remembered that history grad-school research tends to blow up metaphorically, not literally.

    • At the lower grade levels, in the schools, the teachers really mean well. Administrators and curriculum design people, eh, yeah.

  8. Appreciate your comment about “guest-workers from cultures where women are second class”. I’ve had the thought about patriarchal cultures before, but never consciously connected it to the H1-B program.

    I don’t like that program. For every top-notch performer it brought in, it also imported 15 or 20 just barely competent (and sometimes not even that) worker bees whose main contribution has been to give bonuses to management for keeping personnel costs low. Low salaries remove incentives to spend 4 years of your life doing homework eight hours a night instead of partying like the other guys. We’re losing new engineers and therefore our technical edge so that Sergey and Larry and their wannabes can make another billion.

    Can anyone smarter than me figure out a way to point the harpies shrieking about “The Patriarchy ” at the H1-B program? Maybe we can get some good out of them – sow’s ear, and all that.

    • In my less charitable moments, I have visions of what it would take for the hard-core intersectional feminists to go after the tech companies that use and abuse the H1-B visa program. Unfortunately, the number of lives damaged or broken before that tipping point would probably be far higher than my conscience could tolerate.

  9. Why would a male have to be a feminist male to be valid? I think your bias is showing there.

    • I’m using the feminists’ own terms. I’ve been told to my face that only men who avow modern Fourth Wave feminism (intersectional feminism) are real, acceptable, modern men. Everyone else is wallowing in male privilege, or hindering progress, or is a Neanderthal, or similar. Like me being a traitor to my sex because I don’t agree with intersectional feminism.

  10. I always lie to bring up this little nugget of truth every time someone mentions the ‘girls arent being encouraged enough’ argument

    The majority of teachers are women – so how it girls not being encouraged mens fault?

    • Most of the females who are now teachers in the gubmint skools aspired to a comfy job teaching second graders* when they were undergrads or fifth-year Ed. students.

      * yes, that’s the most popular grade to teach when Ed. students are polled so in Math For Teachers classes you’ll hear a lot of “Why do I have to know this, I’m only going to teach second grade” whining despite the typical multi-subject credential’s authorization covers K-12 students, not just K-2

  11. I’m still waiting for someone to explain to me how *science* will benefit from there being more women in science.

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